Thoughts on the 2008 Civic Si Coupe? Moose??

[Zoli]

I'm considering taking over a lease on an 08 Civic Si Coupe, as the deal is damn good and hard to pass up. Can anyone give me their thoughts on the car, from those that have driven it?

Moose, I was at Mosport DDT with Dave (Teal Civic) and witnessed your splitter incident. Can you give me some ownership impressions on your car, other than the fact that it doesn't off-road so well? :)

[Taylor]

FYI I was in the market for one of these (the Si Sedan) and I did like the car, my wife liked it more than I did and at the time the lease incentive on it was so good it was going to cost within $30 a month or so the same as a Fit, but in the end, it takes premium gas and the Fit is far more practical for 4 people and any reasonable amount of of hauling.

If I had to do it again, I'm not entirely sure I'd still pick the Fit due to the lack of excitement when driving it. I do quite enjoy the car, but I also know I'm a little bored with it on the highway.. that said, it's probably kept me from getting at least 2 tickets in the past 7 months. It should also be known, while it's the daily driver, it doesn't get driven daily and when it does get driven, it's during rush hour to DT and back and I thik it's probably al ittle more civilized in first gear than the Si was going to be. PLus we've managed to haul insane amounts of stuff in it even when we were thinking it's cargo space would be more of a gimmick than usable.. we were wrong.

That said, if I rethought it again, I may still come back ot the Fit since we just don't drive enough (12 to 14K combined a year), why the extra expense with poorer fuel economy and premium gas prices. I figured it out and it was going to amount to a few grand over the term of the lease.

[Zoli]

Thanks Taylor. I currently drive an 85 Corolla GTS which has virtually zero storage space, and can only seat 4 semi-comfortably, so anything would be an upgrade in those categories. I commute about 60km/day, mainly highway from downtown to Scarborough, and my girlfriend's family is in Newmarket, so we go up there periodically. I love to drive, so I just can't see myself in a boring car. The Si already looks to get better gas mileage than my AE86, though you're right, premium gas prices offset the better fuel economy, but at least I can drive the Civic year-round, unlike my rwd "beast".

I haven't even inspected an Si up close..how is the storage in that thing? I really should go take a look.....

[PeterL]

I am the owner of a 2006 Civic Si coupe; I purchased the car brand new in February 2006. It was one of the first one’s in Ontario #656, I currently have 61k on the car.

My previous two cars were also hyper Honda 4 cylinder coupes (Acura RSX type-s & 2000 Civic SiR).

I drive my vehicle year round and track the car as well the occasional trip down the quarter mile.

First off the K series engine in my opinion is one of the best four cylinders ever made it is bullet proof and pulls strong, with just intake and exhaust I ran a 14.4 @ 97+ m.p.h.

The downside is low end torque and the fact that it does need to rev to produce the power (higher cam kicks in at 5800 and fuel cut 8300). Like all engines gas mileage is a factor of driving style but I do find the 2.0 K a little thirsty as well it NEEDS premium. I fill up for about $65 and this get me about 500KM no more, mostly city driving. This car makes you want to drive fast.
The 6 speed is very tight, 4.77 final drive, so I hope you like shifting. The 6th gear on the Si’s is taken from the TSX and is a true overdrive unlike the 6 speed in the 05-06 RSX’s so highway cruising at 100 km is actually quite relaxed around 3000 R.P.M. It’s is no Caddy but does not drone or ride too harsh.

Common concerns: I found that my car initially had some quality concerns around squeaks and rattles, this was a result of the 6 airbags found in the 8th generation civic and it did take a few trips to the dealer to rectify. The third gear in Honda 6 speeds have tendency to grind 3rd, I believe this was fixed in the 07’+ model year when Honda went to new type of fluid but some reports still surface on the newer models, I changed my fluid with Amsoil synthetic M.T.F. and have not had a problem since. My sunroof also got stuck open and was fixed under warranty but I’m sure this is an isolated incident. My stock SI rims flaked and needed to be refinished probably a result of the2007 killer winter and massive salt deposits. No other problems.

I do not find my car to be very capable when hauling items (my RSX hatch could carry a fridge) the trunk is an O.K. size but is quite narrow and the pass through the seats is hampered by framing which make large items impossible to fit right through. As a year round car it is O.K. in the winter but I drove it on the all seasons and would suggest a designated set of winters. It performs like a regular front driver..

On the track even stock, the car is an overachiever, with a decent suspension, very good brakes, stock L.S.D. and the K it really gets around. With a few mods it will embarrass much more expensive machinery but Moose is much more qualified than I to talk to this aspect.
As a year round sporty coupe for someone with 1 young or no kids and no desire to transport large items I find the car hard to beat and would recommend the car to anyone in this demographic with confidence. It is a Honda after all.
Good luck with your purchase.:)

[TAO]

06+ Civic's Si's Thoughts and general ramblings:

As a daily Driver, it is excellent, quiet, comfortable, fun to drive, and if you can keep control off the “loud pedal” it gets “decent” gas mileage, particularly when you consider the performance.
-I get 9.9L/100kmin the city with me beating on it, with regular forays into i-Vtec, If I behave (not often) I see arround 9L/100Km .
-Cruising on the highway at 120 KM/h I see better than 7L/100km.

-Front seat space, and driver adjustability is great (height adjustable seat, tilt / telescoping steering wheel). I am 6’2” and I fit with a helmet on (just)
-Rear seat in the coupe is typically marginal (for a small coupe) but still usable.
-Trunk space is decent, but like all Coupes/sedans, is restricted by the passage thru the rear seat opening. That being said, I can fit my mountain bike with the front wheel off in.
-The Fit (or any hatch) is way more practical from a sheer storage potential… but few cars in this price range offers the price / quality and performance ratio that the Si does.

I have only a few minor issues with the car
-3rd gear crunch (there is A TSB out that fixes this under warrantee),
-Excess of under-coating causing some staining on the rear trunk lid.
-All other issues (few if any) are directly related to the track abuse.

From a track perspective the car is great out of the box, requiring few things to make it a good daily driver, occasional track warrior.

-Good tires on wide rims – OE all seasons suck donkey balls.
-Front Camber – not enough OE - $45 and a couple of sets of camber bolts fixes this
-Rear Camber – To Much OE – an Ingals rear kit ($300) fixes this quite nicely
-Front pads – typical OE – will not take track abuse (other than AutoX ) . I have tried some dual purpose pads, to no avail, you really need a dedicated set track pads / rotors if you are lapping etc.
-Progress rear sway bar (22mm) combined with the front camber TRANSFORMS the car into a rotating BEAST. ($200)
-The fenders are HUGE – they will take 235-40-17 with little issues if you get the offset right, and with some creativity and some fender rolling 255-40-17 will fit.
-The Motor responds well to modification (AMAZING MOTOR by the way) – with the right bolt-on’s and a Hondata Reflash you will see 200+ ATW (170ish is stock) 210+ with Cams.
-Stock LSD works REALLY well ... and helps teh car perform (LSD's are critical for FWD performance)


My car is tweaked a fair bit (Coil-over’s, Rear sway-bar, aggressive alignment, 235-40-17 Tires on 17x8 rims, Ducted Cowl induction air-box etc) … drop me a line if you would like to come out for a spin in the beast.


Down-side to the car
-Aftermarket support has really improved in the past year, BUT it is still a bit weak for quality track-biased performance bits.
-Gets me in trouble regularly

[Zoli]

From everything I've read this sounds like an awesome car. I've been putting a lot of thought (probably way too much) into what I should do for a car now that my winter beater is dead, but the idea of leasing something for 4.5 years makes me cringe. I understand some of the financial benefits to it, but my current debt load doesn't help with this decision making. If anyone of you are personal financial experts who have some insight into this, I'm all ears, but as it stands now I don't think I can justify "renting" a car for this long.

Damn it I want it, though....

Here are my options that I'm dealing with:

a) lease something I can afford and deal with it when the lease is up
- benefits of this are driving a newer car for lower monthly payments
- drawback is that I have to give up the car at the end or finance the buyout amount ... never-ending car payments

b) finance something I can afford from a monthly standpoint, new or used
- benefit of this are potentially having a newer car, though it would be much less of a car then an Si as the monthly payments are higher for financing, but the car is mine once it's paid off, or I can sell it at any time
- drawback is driving an older (potential quality issues come up much quicker with unknown epenses attached) or much more boring vehicle

c) buy a CHEAP used car
- benefit is no regular monthly payments
- drawback - old cheap cars are cheap for a reason...numerous unknown breakdowns and expenses, so monthly financial strain may be worse than from above 2 options

Man I wish I didn't care about cars. So much easier to just say "hey that pink one is cute. I'll buy that!"

[mikewolf]

Buy something slow and heavy and autox it ;)

[nrg3k]

just a thought... bout how different is the 06 from the 08 ? my understanding is they are almost the same car... i know the 06 was majorly different from the 05.

DJM:>

[MilesM]

Personally I don't like the idea of leasing. If a car is going to see track life or any kind of competitive driving, I don't want to be answering to a bank or fin co if I stuff it into a wall. I like owning my cars outright if I can afford it or buy something my line of credit can absorb in a 12 mo time line. Line of credit interest rate is lower than banks and finance co's. The downside is you're looking for reliable cars from 2-6 years old. Best bang for buck is you have to accept fewer options and luxuries and stick to base models. If you can't afford an Si, get a DX and use the money for tires, seat time, driving schools and making it handle. Or a used Fit - fun cars and lots and lots of mods avail. Spend your money enjoying whatever equipment you have rather than getting into something that limits your enjoyment.

I don't know your financial situation - someone with a million in assets can feel poor, someone with a million in debt can feel rich. But if the only way you can get into a car is with a lease, there's a better than decent chance you'll be over-extending yourself. The key to enjoying this sport is disposable income. No matter what car you have, its fun as hell to drive the snot out of it. Kenny's EG is one of my favourite cars to bitch-slap and it's got no balls - especially with Kenny driving. ;) hehe. fap fap!

[Taylor]

Well I'm not a financial expert, but I will tell you this.

I've been driving since I was 17 and got my own first car at 19. In the last 12 years I've owned and/or leased 92 Accord LX, 95 delSol VTEC, 95 Ford Explorer Expedition, 98 Prelude SH, 00' S2000, 95 Integra 4 dr, 97 delSol VTEC, 91 Toyota MR2, 92 Civic VX (dedicated track car), 97 Type R, 93 BMW 318is and the 08' Fit. That's an average of 1 car, per year.

The Fit, for us, is a stop gap until Plug-In Hybrids are readily available. Hence the 36 month lease.

I only ever really lost (not counting leasing costs.. those are/were fixed costs) any real money on 2 cars, the 97 delSol and the S2K. The delSol because shortly after modifying it I was told I would get my S2000 a year before they originaly told me I would get it and I had just finished putting mods on it. And the S2000 because it sat in the garage in the winter and when the lease was up (In Nov) I couldn't find anyone to take it even though after 4 years it had only about 24,000Kms on it.

For the others, I almost always got better than market value or fair value based on my purchase price. The MR2 and ITR I got really good deals on and was able to resell them a year or longer later for near the price I paid, though I had put money in the MR2 over the years that helped that resale. The BMW I got a great deal on and I'm just driving it into the ground now. Returned the Accord and Explorer (shared lease) at the end of lease, had a contract issue with the delsol and returned it prior to the end of it's lease but they wouldnt' let me bring it to Canada. I don't think we did too bad on the Auto 4Dr Integra. I'm sure we easily got the rate of a lease or better out of it per month we had it. The Prelude.. i think I refinanced it at the end of the lease but then again I don't think I had it past the 4 years so maybe I just decided to return it. Anyhow in every case I sold a car, I had the time/patience to do so (except the S2K, I wasn't going to refinance it over the winter in hopes to sell it in the spring.. it was an impossible situation and in the end it was my passion for the car that cost me any real money with any cars I've had).

I should point out too I've had almost no problems with any of my cars. Definately below average issues. More issues with the used vehicles mind you but nothing really significant. To tell you the truth, I can't even think of any warranty issues. I think I had the S2K in for a Tech Bulletin but that was about it. *knock on wood*

This said, I obviously don't keep my cars very long either. :p

Anyhow the point of all this is that you can easily spend a lot of time and money on cars. Of those 12, 5 of them saw AutoX and/or SoloSprint action. If I ever get a set of wheels, I'm sure I'll autoX the Fit (making it 6).

But that's sort of the thing, I think pre-motorsport your thrills are on the highway at great risk to your license and others, during motorsport your thrills are only at the track but you're always on the lookout for a nicer car..cars...cars...cars. One track mind... in the 'twilight' of motorsport (maybe I should say I'm "motorsport middleaged now") in conjunction with being getting into the middle ages, I need a car to carry friends around in, groceries, build it yourself furniture and for most, baby seats. If you have a significant other, you'll need a car with a comfortable ride, doesn't sound like a bee in a can and doesn't require "STEPS" to start it in the morning. :p

BTW.. I didn't finally buy a house until last year... think my car collection had something to do with it?

So from a guy who's bought cars for every possible reason:

- Hand me down (92 Accord)
- What I could afford while living at home, stretching me thin (95 delSol was about $250 a month to lease and $300 a month to insure! (clean record, just age)
- What me and my Roommate (dad) could afford (the Explorer)
- What I liked even after driving cars costing 50% more, though I could afford more (Prelude)
- For sentimental reasons and hopes to get my girlfriend to drive stick (97 delSol)
- My (resonable) dream car, which I spent a lot of money on (S2K)
- For my girlfriend (now wife) who wouldn't drive stick (97 delSol)
- For a presumed kick ass track car after watching a Miata roll over at my 2nd road course competition event and realizing my 3100lb Prelude was WAY too heavy for the track (Toyota MR2) (It's all Dave Pratte's fault, BTW :p)
- For a proper kick ass track car with a retarded amount of cheap and interchangeable parts that I would bolt a roll cage in and finally drive 10/10ths and wouldn't be paying off for a decade if I crashed it (Civic)
- For a new Daily Driver to replace the fun of the S2K when presented with a good deal (ITR)
- Discovering the ITR lost it's lustre of my plans for it, the cost of gas as a commuter and being presented with another great deal (BMW)
- Finally fed up with no Air Conditioning, house is bought, a little motorsportted out, fuel prices are retarded and 4 years since I owned a new car (Fit)

...I think, if you're tight on a budget, try your best NOT to blow your money on cars.

With a lot of the initial house expenses and other auxillary expenses nearly being paid off, I could easily justify many a new car in the next year. But I will not buy one.

It's more likely I will strip the cage and suspension from my Civic and start daily driving it (even with the tuned powertrain in there it should equal or better the Fit's fuel economy).

This goes against every urge I have for a 1 Series BMW, or the Evo XI, or a K powered Civic.

That said, I probably only spend between my wife and I, less than $2500 a year in gas. I'd rather spend the money on travel or on my home. I find the experiences are more rewarding than something that's ultimately utilitarian as driving. The people on the public roads are really poor drivers and the risk to properly enjoy the performance of my car in their proximity feels like it rises every year. I think people are realizing this more and more too and they seem to be buying more and more practical cars for various reasons.

54 months is a long time to keep 1 car. And in 4.5 years, it'll be difficult to offload a premium-only 2door performance car IMO. In 4.5 years there will be a handful of plug-in hybrids out that will eliminate most if not all of the concerns people have had about hybrids and electric vehicles of the past. I'm not sure what gas prices will look like in 5 years, but I can't imagine they'll be more attractive to driving a premium only car with (these days) mediocre L/100km numbers. Keep in mind, BMW is about to drop all but 4cyl production in the coming years!

I'm guessing your lease will be minimum a couple hundred a month, plus tax. So you're looking at 3K a year, 15K over the term and you still won't own it. Maybe 10K buyout? In addition your insurance on a Civic Si will be one of the highest, certainly unfair for the purcahse price of the car and you'l be paying for premium gas. So lets say 5K a year in TCO (25K over the term... which is a downpayment on a 500K home, or 5 years of exceptional vacations). Fact is, it's a lot of money and to me, 4.5 years is a long time. Usually it's no biggy with a Honda because you can usually sell them for their value to get yourself out of the lease at most any time but I'm thinking that's going to be very difficult these days with a performance car and moreso as time goes on (Forget that oil is down right now.. think of the current prices as a coupon.. an incentive to get you to keep burning it so they can gradually bring the prices back up again).

Anyhow the reason I don't feel any sort of concern of somewhat trying to talk you out of it is because.. I've been there, and it's only a car.

You can (or at least you could) get a few year old Echo Hatch for like 7K and drive to Florida for Spring Break. :p (Though may I suggest something with more safety features?)

I think if you were to purchase the right used car, you'd be WAY ahead and it would help with your 'debt load' you mentioned.

You're also better off if you're capable of working on the car yourself. Motorsport helped me learn a lot of that stuff and beyond engines I've changed out things that go bad on cars like a distributor, rotor, valve adjustments, plugs, wires, relays, pads, rotors, shocks, bushings, fluid changes. That stuff makes owning a used car much easier.

You usually want to shy away from doing that stuff on new cars because 1) under warranty and 2) you can invalidate the warranty without interval based service receipts.

So 9 times out of 10, owning a new car (especially a new American car) is far more expensive than a popular used car (i.e. Civic).

[Zoli]

Wow, thanks for the great responses guys. You're absolutely right, it doesn't make any sense to stretch my finances just to own a new performance car which very well might lose it's lustre in 4.5 years due to gas prices/hybrids, etc. (among the various other reasons cited)

I'm not planning on tracking whatever car I get next, as I definitely can't afford to risk damaging my daily driver, so that's not an issue with whatever I choose (I say that now....). I guess I need to go talk to the bank then keep my eyes open for that needle in the haystack... mid-90's Integra GSR that hasn't been messed with too much. Or Civic .... or Impreza 2.5RS... hmmmm.

[PeterL]

With things the way they are now (I should have kept my extra $ under the bed) I would probably support the move to a DC2 Integra and just buy it outright.

As far as the 06 to 08 civic's they are practically identical, the 09's have just come out and they have some cosmetic changes. Judge for yourself.

For those that plan on modding a coupe, Moose is right the aftermarket is not as strong as it should be for a popular car that is now entering it 4th model year.

I believe that this has a lot to do with the fact that this is a North American specific model and does not exist in Japan. Look at the support for a DC5 RSX, it's like having a Mustang 5.0, so many options.

Moose the last time I saw your car (Hada meet @ JRP in Summer) I don't believe that you had the Ducted Cowl induction air-box. Can you please provide more details or a link to the install, if you posted one?

I assume it works better than the Injen cold air set up that I am currently running.

[TAO]

Moose the last time I saw your car (Hada meet @ JRP in Summer) I don't believe that you had the Ducted Cowl induction air-box. Can you please provide more details or a link to the install, if you posted one?

I assume it works better than the Injen cold air set up that I am currently running.

It works REALLY well ... At speed my IAT (Intake Air temp) is only 5-7 degree's over ambient air temps and well below water/block temps (85C) - I confirmed this with an OBD Scan gauge

It pulls Air from the cowl and front bumper (dual ducted)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/2728807633_914b9fdfc3_o.jpg

It uses a OE MAF housing and MAF to make sure there is accurate AF reading ...something the Injen does NOT provide

I fabricated it out of Sheet Alunimum

Some Pictures

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2872823513_69b4af5044_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3113/2873652262_367cb5eaea_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3184/2872822851_79abef65d0_o.jpg


Here is a link to the build -

http://kseries-tech.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=229&st=0&sk=t&sd=a


Moose

[PeterL]

:eek: Now that's an intake, and here I was thinking that the T1R Air conduct box was the way to go.

Very nice build and best part is the A/F readings are clean, we all get a hesitation with the injen CAI @ 2000 rpm and throttle response suffers, compounding the delay with the drive by wire throttle.

I am running at DDT on the 13th and Dunnville the 19th; would love to see your FG2 in action.

You haven't posted this build on 8th Gen:confused:

[Taylor]

Siiiiick! Nice work Moose.

[TAO]

:eek: Now that's an intake, and here I was thinking that the T1R Air conduct box was the way to go.

Very nice build and best part is the A/F readings are clean, we all get a hesitation with the injen CAI @ 2000 rpm and throttle response suffers, compounding the delay with the drive by wire throttle.

I am running at DDT on the 13th and Dunnville the 19th; would love to see your FG2 in action.

You haven't posted this build on 8th Gen:confused:

I did post the info above, not as a stand alone but as part of the article below.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-ons-all-motor/80540-cowl-induction-cold-ram-air-si.html

DDT on 13th and Dunvill on the 17th ??? Got more info ?

There is NO hesitation at all - it works REALLY REALLY well. This setup feels alot like a K24 with a broad smooth powerband.


I have a brand new idea for a ducted Air-box that I am going to work on over the winter ... It will be a bit radical :D

I have the template for the box which I could scan 1:1 that you could use to build your own out of plexiglass/abs/alunimum etc ... I actually have extra alunimum sheet sitting at home.



Moose

[PeterL]

I did post the info above, not as a stand alone but as part of the article below.

http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/bolt-ons-all-motor/80540-cowl-induction-cold-ram-air-si.html

DDT on 13th and Dunvill on the 17th ??? Got more info ?

There is NO hesitation at all - it works REALLY REALLY well. This setup feels alot like a K24 with a broad smooth powerband.


I have a brand new idea for a ducted Air-box that I am going to work on over the winter ... It will be a bit radical :D

I have the template for the box which I could scan 1:1 that you could use to build your own out of plexiglass/abs/alunimum etc ... I actually have extra alunimum sheet sitting at home.



Moose

Link for the track days.. http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=13

"A bit radical"; I can see you rubbing your hands together with evil grin present. IT'S ALIVE!

I'm not the fabricator you are, although it might be worth a try. Could be interested in v1.0 after v2.0 is complete, doubt I be the only one too. Look a that dude on 8th Gen with the X-Intake and the stir that caused.

[AAC]

That is an incredible work of art Moose! You've inspired me to do something similar.

[pigeon]

hehe, 'Moose box'

[eg6ajk]

hehe, 'Moose box'

Moose Knuckle ?

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f193/crzyape177/MooseKnuckle.jpg

[ELeMental]

Aw geez, some things can never been unseen...

[pigeon]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
wowwwww

[TomL]

Is that Eddie Murphy?