Autoslalom or Solosprint?

[Isotope9]

Hi everyone..I'm having a hard time deciding on which of the two I should start with as a beginner.

At this point, I'm not sure which way to go....I like the idea of autoslalom because it seems (to a complete noob) like it will be cheaper and easier on the car...but the idea of driving around cones doesn't do it for me as much as driving on a real track does.

The learning curve of autoslalom appears to be less steep than that of solosprint.

I could do both....but the budget is limited. I've spent most of it on a car (96 Integra RS) as my wife was never comfortable with me tracking our leased BMW :D

[ShaneG]

Having done both, I would strongly suggest starting with autoslalom, especially if you don't have any motorsport experience.

you'll learn car control in a much safer environment.

I'm not saying you can't go straight to Solosprint, many do... But I believe that some autoslaloms and a few lapping days (HPDE) would be very beneficial before pushing your car (and more importantly, yourself) to the limit in a solosprint competition

[bsclywilly]

When you do get in to Solosprint, it would be a good idea to take the school to get you up to speed faster and more safely. Also, your first couple track days you will likely find that your car has some deficiencies (for example brakes, suspension joints, worn out dampers, etc.) and it would be easier to iron those things out, as well as your driving comfort level, at a lapping day or track school rather than on a competition day.

For me, I don't think autoslalom is any easier than solosprint, but to some it does give more pleasure to put your foot in to it for more than just a couple seconds per lap.

[engsr]

Having done both, I would strongly suggest starting with autoslalom, especially if you don't have any motorsport experience.

you'll learn car control in a much safer environment.

I'm not saying you can't go straight to Solosprint, many do... But I believe that some autoslaloms and a few lapping days (HPDE) would be very beneficial before pushing your car (and more importantly, yourself) to the limit in a solosprint competition

Agreed.

Autoslalom for some doesn't sound as exciting as lapping/solosprint when they first hear about it but it is a lot of fun and relatively easy on the wallet to get your feet wet with motorsports.

[Isotope9]

Thanks for the advice guys.

I've done 3 lapping days at DDT with the Toronto Prelude club with the BMW...but nothing with the Integra yet.

For this year, I think I'll skip both autoslalom and solosprint and do as many lapping days as possible and track school in order to sort the car out and get a feel for it.

I'm in the process of replacing brake lines/fluid with SS and ATE (I'd be done if it weren't for a seized flare nut...but that's another story)...that and wheels/rubber are probably it until I get some more experience...no sense putting parts on if i can't tell if they help or hurt.

Thanks again.

[MilesM]

I'm sorry but ur are much better off competing than u r lapping. There r no good learning habits learned at lapping days. U need to compete to bring up ur game. Schools are also a good place to spend ur money. Carl's school is a must for every budding driver. Much better use of limite budget and time IMO.

[Maxi]

Apparently Miles needs to compete in some English writing. Doood, r u fo realz? I agree with your message, but I think we'd all prefer you bust out the Olde English next time, ok? What I'm saying is, please go medieval on our asses. SRSLY.

In my view Autocross and SoloSprint bear very little resemblance to each other and although the common pitch within the motorsports community is to say Autocross is the best place to start and then you can "work your way up the ladder" to SoloSprint, in my opinion the driving technique used to become competitive at Autocross is really very different than the driving technique required to go fast around a race track, be it SoloSprint or Road Racing. There are of course lessons learned from Autocrossing that can be carried over to SoloSprint, but the learning curve when you first start to compete in either sport will be steep. I would therefore encourage you to try both and see which interests you more. Just keep in mind that SoloSprint does involve a higher level of commitment both time-wise and financially (since you have to travel further to get to the tracks, registration fees are higher due to the higher costs of renting a race track, and the cost to compete is higher since you burn through more gas, use up more brakes and rubber, etc), but in my view there's also a higher level of enjoyment that comes with SoloSprint because you're able to drive your car through a wider range of its performance potential and in the process develop your driving over a wider range of speeds and conditions as well. Just my opinion. I could be wrong (but I'm not).

[MilesM]

iPoWn post yo, with fat fingers. LOL.

[TomL]

Too lazy to type on iPhone post yo, with fat fingers. LOL.

Fixed.

[Boostgod]

Isotope9,

Take this with a grain of salt, as it is my personal opinion:

I believe that Solosprint is a much better place to start. I started with a lapping day totally by accident back in 05 when CSCS drag racing was full. After that I started participating in Solosprint events. I think its a better place to start because you get more track time, there are great instructors to help you hone your skills and you can monitor you progress via laptimes. I really dislike Autox with a passion so my opinion is a little bit one sided. Because of the short amount of actual driving time in Solo2 its hard to make significant skills gains in short amounts of time. If I go to an autox, I may be lucky to get 6 to 7 minutes tracktime and I have to deal with not getting confused by pylons scattered around. For me to be skilled at autox, I would need to kick all the people out, and lap the cource for an hour or two, then call all the people back and give me my 6 minutes scattered throughout the day. If entry cost is not an issue, go solosprint. It sho' iz fun :)

[Taylor]

Guess it all depends on how competitive you are as a person. If you're just looking to have fun... lapping days and autoX events are the way to keep costs very low. You can run street tires... basically you just need a helmet and even then most AutoX events offer loaners.

That's the healtiest way to approach it... "Try it out". Now if you're like I am and you discover you can be a competitive driver, then the gloves come off. As to which is better is really going to come down to personal preference. All I can do is relate my experience.

Started in 01. First on-track event was a BMW Trillium School at Mosport in the Rain, with my new S2000. From there I took my Prelude (concerned about not really knowing how to handle a RWD car) to my first AutoCross event. It was the wrong car as those Preludes (and Accords) had power steering pump issues where it would cut out going lock to lock (which can happen often in AutoX). I didn't do too well, wasn't last, but certainly wasn't fast. The next event, I believe was another AutoX event, this time I brought out the S2000. Much easier to drive than the Prelude was. I don't remember my results, I'm sure I was low-midpack. Then I did the SoloSprint (Called Solo 1 at the time) school. I got to meet a lot of people who eventually became close friends here. However the actual school did not equal the driving skill exercises/information I got from the 2 day BMW course. However I did learn about the series, how it works and my instructors were gearing me towards going faster, where the BMW school at a beginner level is more just trying to keep you happy and get you and your car through the weekend undamaged. That isn't to say you're held back, it's just they don't push you.

So then I started SoloSprint. Against an experienced driver in another stock S2000 I was 4 seconds off my first event, by the 4th event I think I Was only 2 seconds off. But those speeds proved to be a big mental wall for me that over 3 more cars and a couple years I never exceeded. Basically the issue for me was on my second solo 1 weekend I watched 3 cars roll over, one was a convertible. The second weekend was the last time I drive the S2000 in Solo 1. At 6', my helmeted head was already over the stock roll hoops, the Miata that rolled over that weekend, his rollbar saved his life. It was obvious to me at this point, shit happens and I'm not well prepared for it.

This led me to drive the Prelude for a couple more Solosprints while I found a more suitable track car. Sadly what I bought was NOT the solution and I poured a fair bit of money into it and the performance gap was much much bigger than when I was driving the S2000 (like 7 seconds to what were otherwise mid-pack drivers).

On the AutoX front in that first year, about midway through the year, I had "the" guy (Tony McGrath) co-drive my car. Using video recordings of him driving my car, ride alongs and some pointers, I got over what was also a mental block in AutoX speed. I moved from top-midpack to top 3 (for the class) almost immediately.

That first year, I did 13 of 14 SoloSprint events, took 4 driving schools (BMW Trillium, BMW Bluenose, ASCC Race School and the Solo 1 School) and did somewhere around 20 autoX events, even being able to beat a top level guy 1 of 3 times in a ProSolo in the rain. Needless to say, I was consistently improving in AutoX, while in SoloSprint (going through 3 cars my first year) I was stagnant.

The following years in AutoX it was not uncommon for me to win my class. With a stock car I was able to even challenge for FTD overall and actually got a couple. This is with a reasonably deep field with experienced guys with well prepared cars. Clearly I was good at Autocross. However I didn't stop with SoloSprint. I ran half the events while trying to sort out the MR2 Turbo I bought the first year... I was able to improve it and my times a bit, bu tthere was still far too much of a performance gap and the car setup just wasn't confidence inspiring. Didn't help I had reliability issues (30 degree july days would cause the exhaust manifold to back off from the head.. stud stretching I guess.. turbo problems. I hate turbos.).

Later that year, I got to co-drive a friends EG Civic Hatchback at the Canadian Eastern Autoslalom Championship. I found the car and I worked very well together. I was also given the opportunity just after that to co-drive Maxi's EG hatch at the time. That event I think proved to be my best results, the next day someone else whom I regarded as a pretty solid driver at the time (even better these days) also co-drove that car with me, I was only 1 second off from him but I also knew I still lacked the confidence to drive it balls out (mostly because it was someone elses car and I was new to the platform). Anyhow this resulted in me buying an EG hatch and preparing it for SoloSprint. The year I got it ready my first event, I still was at that speed wall. I felt I was pushing it as hard as I could, but it was really just as hard as I was willing to. I had, I believe, Maxi drive the car with me and the next day I won my class, which was the biggest at the event (over 20 cars), beating more experienced drivers with their more experienced cars. I was even able to beat Krispy's time (which even a class down, ask around, is generally considered an accomplishment). Anyhow at the end of that season, I could have won it, but made poor event decisions (I had to skip some, was lazy about others and then had a misclassed car).. but I know it was within my grasp to win that class for the year. Ironically, the last event I was to run that season, the last run of the day, I got into my first accident. That said I was able to drive the car home and repair was < $500, so it was about as good of an outcome for an accident you could have.

The next year I even took a racing school and had a blast at it and feared what buying a truck and a trailor could do to my wallet. However, when I really thought about it I was starting to get tired with SoloSprint. A shannonville weekend demands almost 3 days of your life.. and that assumes your car is running well and doesn't require any maintenance. I did the math and discovered a weekend was probably costing me about $1000 all told. But it was also keeping me away from my wife and I had some debt I needed to pay down. It just wasn't worth it. I wasn't getting out of it what I put into it like i could with AutoX.

With AutoX I was a proven competitor, I could get to events within 30 minutes, and be home for dinner.. 1 day a weekend, $25-40 entry fee.. minimal wear and tear on the car. All told in a season of autoX if I'm buying fresh R's each year (which I wasn't) you're looking at sub $100 per event. The gap was just far too big for me. I love amateur motorsport, but it's not my life. Solosprint just simply isn't 10x more fun than AutoX.

That said, I would love to get back on the track, but I, again, have an S2000 and insurance regulations more or less prevent me from putting a rollbar in without fear of them not covering the claim. The car is too valuable to me to put it at risk like that. Though I fear my life is too valuable to put myself at risk without it. I still may show up and do some 8/10ths driving. But I'm just not sure after 10 years of being used to winning stuff that will thrill me anymore.

I might move my insurance and pay up the ass for the peace of mind so I can get the bar, but again, when I think about it. I'm just not sure I will get the value out of it (I have a newborn, it could easily be 5 years before I can do anything "seriously" again).

I guess the point of all this is that SoloSprint, in my case, proved to be a VERY expensive sport. We're talking in 10 years I did about 5 seasons, drove 4 different cars, and only had 1 properly competitive season. The Civic I put about 12K into and only got 4K for it last year. Even if I won the seasons, the trophies aren't made of gold. :) I've just become a bit too practical in certain areas of my life, and basically it amounts to how entertained I am = how much money I'm willing to throw at something.

But considering my previous season of AutoX and my general domination for the events I ran (admitedly with limited competition, but even the Regional AutoX series has big time committments put on it (some events in Ottawa, Picton requiring overnight stays, etc just to get the minimum events for a "full" season). But even at the 3 events I didn't have FTD at, I was there in raw time on old, winter driven, poor AutoX tires. The point there is, I may be "so good" at AutoX now (at least with the car I have) that the challenge is gone locally. This has me looking at cross border events, but then I start recognizing the exact same "problem" I had with SoloSprint.

So for me now, I went from trying it out, to it being a hobby, to quickly being a competition, and now I'm more or less back to it being a hobby. Just cant justify the costs. And it's not that my money is tight. It's not. It's not that I'm cheap. I'm not. I could easily go regional road racing, it's just me, I like new challenges and I've become all too practical as I pulled myself out of debt the past 10 years (not caused by motorsport, but not helpd by it either). Anyhow, right now the new challenge is parenting. Should hold my interest for a little while I hope. :p

So, as I say, what's best, depends on the person. I'm always looking for the best "value" for my time and/or money. When I find that, I'm ecstatic. If the value's not there, I'll quickly get bored.

Anyhow, for AutoX, you should come out to some events this year (I'll be at most of the PITL (http://www.wiredmotorsports.com/pitl)) events as organizer (ask for me at the tent), even if just as a passenger. The events are boring as hell to watch, everyone looks slow (even the case with SoloSprint most of the time too), but it's different in the drivers seat and moreso in the passenger seat. It's fast enough and the way my car is setup and the way I drive it, I definately get to use it's full performance.. just not the rest of the gears. :p Let me put it another way... a fire truck showed up at one of our events last year. The head of the series suggest the firefighters go for ride-alongs. One of the guys I took along told me at the end that I scared the shit out of him (and I'm NOT a wild driver)... a guy who runs into burning buildings was honestly shaken as a passenger in a parking lot competition. :) There are thrills to be had, for sure.

I would also say though if you're easily frustrated you may find AutoX is not for you. Some people equate failing at autocross the ultimate humiliation. :) "It's in a parking lot, in 1st and 2nd gear". But the best Autocross drivers are also amung (and the) best Road Course drivers too. I can NOT say the inverse. I know a lot of good Solosprint drivers who suck at or do not like AutoX.

Good luck.

[mxqisit]

You're in fine form today Tay!

[Isotope9]

Gah...nothing is ever simple...:D

Looks like I have some of the concerns that Taylor had/has....I really enjoyed tracking my BMW...but the thought of rolling/crashing a leased vehicle didn't sit well with me...so this year I went and bought a "throwaway" car with the intent of getting more serious....and I could push harder without worrying about how I would get to work on Mondays.

Unfortunately...14 yr old cars need some work to get them ready for track work and while, like Taylor, I am neither cheap nor broke, I too have a hard time justifying spending lot of money on what is essentially a hobby.

I have a lot to think about...but at the very minimum, I'll be doing some track schools.

Is it possible to join either series midway through the season?

I'm thinking once I have more experience maybe I'll try one of each event to see which I'm more confortable with.

[Taylor]

Yup. you can drop in and run whenever you want. Though with SoloSprint booking event entry ahead of time gets you a price discount.