Tire Shaving?

[rocket_roger]

I'm looking at new set of Toyo RA1's and I've read that they come stock for for running in the wet, and need to be "shaved" down for the dry. What's the best way to do that? Is it something I can do at home or do I have to bring them in somewhere?

Thanks,
Roger

[Nova_Dust]

You order them "shaved" for maximum grip surface, that is something I don't think you can do at home.

[Guillermo]

Best way to do that is to bring it to Tire Craft in Concord.
126 Peelar Road, Concord, ON
Ph: 905-760-1130
It usually costs about $30/tire

Other people drive new RA1 tires on the street for a few weeks/months to wear them down a bit.

But the question of whether you should shave them or not depends on track experience of the driver. A complete track newbie could benefit from the noise feedback new RA1 provide near the limit of adhesion while they are learning how to drive well on a track. On the other hand a fast experienced driver that drives tires hard at the limit on all the corners can overheat full tread RA1s.
What is your track experience?

[MilesM]

I struggle with the lack of grip of full tread tires. Plus the chunking and over-heating too. G is right to ask what your experience level is. If you're just learning, I'd say leave them. If you've got seat time under your belt and want to go faster, shave'm, they'll last longer and you'll be more competitive.

[Slowpoke]

If you're doing primarily driver education, I agree that you shouldn't shave them; just watch the wear and rotate the tires as needed. The sidewall construction of the RA-1 is symmetrical, so as long as it's dry, you can flip the tires from the right side to the left side if you have to in order to wear them evenly. You can also have a shop flip them on the rim for you halfway through the wear cycle as needed.

Leaving the RA-1 at full tread depth, as you load the tire the rubber flexes and "squirms". As a driver, you can actually feel the inconsistency in the steering. This can be worse depending on the surface that you are running on. e.g.: My full tread depth RA-1's used to feel reasonable on Asphalt, but once I hit the concrete inlays in the corners at Mosport, the car would all of a sudden feel loose, vague, and start to dart around. It then required throttle balance and some steering input to correct at times.

The more the tread blocks squirm, the hotter the surface gets, the faster it overshoots it's "happy temperature" zone of 180-220F, the more grip you lose, the more the tire wears.

One surprise I had last year, was that now that I have reasonable spring rates for my car and that it stays much flatter through the corners, and that I've managed to get -4.0 deg camber and upgrade from 235/40-17 to 255/40-17... the RA-1's actually wear almost perfectly even from full tread depth to near "shaved" heights.

If Concord is a little far, Tireworks near 401 and Dixie also has an outside shop they use for shaving.

[rocket_roger]

I have somewhat limited track experience, (ie. none) but planning to change that this summer. OK, so it sounds like it might be best for me to leave them at full tread, learn with them, and hopefully get better as the tread wore down (me and the tire). Thanks.

This is proving to me once again that the more I learn the more I realized how much I don't know.
Could I expect the rate of wear to decrease as they wore down? Would the grip at full tread depth still be an improvement over a sticky summer tire?

[LeeW]

<IMHO>

Some may disagree with me, but i'd suggest you run your first summer of lapping days with old street tyres. go out an cook em, beat on em, thrash the tyres, being that you'll spend a lot of time bouncing between "near the limit" and "over the limit" on those tyres, you'll learn loads. Near the end of the season, you'll get better at approaching the limit without crossing, and you''l conserve the tyres a bit more by managing the heat and stress you put into them..

next season, slap on some (full tread depth) r-compounds, and go for it. You'll find the limit, and be better prepared to manage yourself and the tyres at the limit.. the traction becomes an aid, not a crutch.

Give it enough seasons, and you'll know if/when you need to use shaved tyres....

</IMHO>

[Slowpoke]

Could I expect the rate of wear to decrease as they wore down? Would the grip at full tread depth still be an improvement over a sticky summer tire?

For most tires, you want to heat cycle them first before taking them to the track. For the RA-1's, you would ideally:

#1 Wait for a warm day
#2 Mount RA1's on the car
#3 Set pressures to about 30lbs front cold, 26lbs rear (you want them soft so that the belts to flex)
#4 Go for a 1hour sustained highway speed drive - nothing aggressive, no darting left and right, just 100km/h or so at those pressures are fine.
#5 Remove the RA1's from the car immediately when you return
#6 Stack them on their side, for 48 hours to let the polymers in the rubber compound cross-link

This will improve the longevity. If it's really hot out, you only need 1/2 hour. If it's near freezing, this is not the ideal time to heat cycle R-Compounds.

At full tread depth, the RA-1 will have much more grip than a street tire. If you're running stock camber, don't worry aobut the wear accelerating as the tire gets older... you have to worry about wearing the outside tread block too quickly because of rollover.

Now, the following might go into the realm of TMI:

Toyo suggests that you run 41-43 psi HOT pressure on RA-1's. Were you at Andrew's talk on tire slip angles and ultimate grip the other night? Personally, I've found that if my RA-1's get much over 45psi, I've found them near useless for grip. Now, I have a 3500lb car with driver on MacPherson struts. So if your car is significantly lighter, you might find that you can use less pressure without too much tire rollover if you have those wonderful Double-Wishbone camber curves.

P.S.: For your first set of RA-1's, see if you can pick up a used set for cheap. I've found four 17" tires with 80% tread depth on the forum for $200. Granted, they weren't stored right and are now an exercise in drifting, but I'd hate to see you near-destroy a brand new set of RA-1's learning how to drive them properly.

[Nova_Dust]

Up until now, all my RA1s have been purchased used. I think new drivers should get the "hand-me-downs" and that way, you don't get the feeling of afraid to do something wrong to your new parts. You pay way less and most of the time, you can probably get away with a full summer driving (daily) plus one or two lapping days. And if you are lucky, you might even to sell those for dirty cheap for those who do drag only (again, new drag racing drivers).

I don't compete in anything, all I am after is seat time, so tire wise, I am still inclined on buying used.

[rocket_roger]

I picked up a used set of RA1's on the weekend. Anyone know a good/inexpensive shop that will mount them for me in the Etobicoke area?

Thanks again

[engsr]

Tires 23 (Matheson/Dixie area) is relatively inexpensive. Just call ahead because if you just show up and they're busy it could take a while.

[HBomb]

Tires 23 (Matheson/Dixie area) is relatively inexpensive. Just call ahead because if you just show up and they're busy it could take a while.

+1 (ignore this text - filler for the 10 character requirement)

[Guillermo]

Tires 23 mounts all my loose tires.

[AdamH]

I would stick to leaving them full tread...

100% they are sticker than any summer tire you can buy at full tread


I have always found that the receomended tire pressure was way to high...I have mine set cold at 28-30psi...if they get past 40psi I find the traction drops off considerably....and they start to wear funny

however I drive with very high slip angles...and large amounts of camber... -4-6 range..

they are 100% great very robust and reliable tires...I have had about 6 sets of them over the years....you can easy get a solo season out of them on a light car....and the great thing is..as they wear down they get faster and faster :) plus you can flip them to get even more life

re: using streets as a newby driver
IMO when I first started track driving I hated driving on streets...they get overheated and wail like pigs..it will frustrate you....which is not fun...(you could always slow down and reduce slip angles...but how much fun is that?)

mainly cause I overdrive the tires..which you may or may not drive like that style

however with R's they are nice and quite..and give you tons more grip..and are very forgiving and way better turn in...you will have lots more fun on R's than on streets...PLUS you will be used to driving on them...

IMO I think its silly learning to drive on streets..then you put your R's on and have to relearn every friggen corner..cause the car is totally different... plus the turn in response is so differnt you will almost drive your car off the road first corner vs streets...

the grip levels of the RA1 and your street tires are so vastly different..they really have nothing in common... and if you drive with high slip angles...that differnce means one wheel on the rumble strip...or the whole car sliding off the rumble strip into the weeds :)

then you have to spend all that time you just spent at whatever track relearning it, which negates most of the competitive advantage you just gained by practicing on it...

IMO

[Nova_Dust]

Tire23 also gets my vote, Billy is a good guy.

[Wes]

GTA Wheel & Tire Zone on the Queensway. Andrew has always been a big supporter of our sport. Drop my name (Wes) and he will surely set you up with mounting and balancing as well as all your alignment needs.

I picked up a used set of RA1's on the weekend. Anyone know a good/inexpensive shop that will mount them for me in the Etobicoke area?

Thanks again