'03 TL Type S ... New tranny, engine mounts, struts, ball joints...

[Slowpoke]

So the wife's car hit 6 years and 125,000km and the automatic tranny is showing slip/slam engagement in DRIVE while in stop and go traffic. Dealer diagnosis: Needs a new tranny. No big deal, that's why Honda extended the warranty to 7 years, 168,000. It's a well-known problem on these transmissions.

After negotiating 15% off parts and labour, I've decided to let the dealer do some other work, just because they DO provide a loaner for the wife to get to work in, and they ARE OE parts. If my wife doesn't like some aftermarket choice I make for dampers, I'll have to answer for it. So, I'm not above paying some dealership premium to get a quiet wife. All too rare a thing ya know. :rolleyes:

The car also needs new front struts (LF is leaking and no longer dampening, RF is 'okay" but I replace in pairs.) They also say the ball joints have excess play. Didn't feel like that to me when I changed the snow tires over, but 125,000km on the original pieces, I'm not going to argue since I'm paying for an alignment after the strut change anyway.

So a couple of other things sounded odd to me:

We need two engine mounts?? Passenger side one that looks like a wheel on a tower, and the big column one. (If it's not obvious what I'm speaking of, I can try to scan the parts photo.) While the tranny is out, they're saying labour will only be one hour instead of two, which doesn't sound brutal.

Question #1: Do these really fail so soon on these models? Or is this probably a creative interpretation of "worn"?

I've dealt with some bitchy ball joints before in my life, but they're quoting 1 hour per ball joint.

Question #2: Is that really the Honda book rate? I mean, it's already up on the hoist and wheels off to do the strut change on each front corner.

Honda book is pretty specific about using their ATF (which I did, at 48k and ~96k) and that got me a toasted tranny anyway. Talking to the service advisor, apparently Honda has made NO modifications to the replacement trannies that is supposed to make the next one last any longer. I only have one year left of extended warranty, so I figure I have very little to lose by asking them to put a proper synthetic tranny fluid it. I know in the US they have to quote a standard fluid spec, but in Canada they don't legally have to. And their manual doesnt. It's the Honda fluid only.

Question #3: Opinions on WHICH synthetic to use with this grenade waiting to blow?

Question #4: Do they have a leg to stand on with the fluid issue if my new tranny fails in less than a year? I've never had to defend the use of synthetics before, but ... you know dealers.

I have to decide by Monday night latest, to get some fluid ordered for Tuesday night.


Thanks for your thoughts.

[Slowpoke]

I'm kind of laughing at my own questions here. I'm on a motorsports forum asking about automatic transmissions and warranty. :D

But I think I'll try out my own lower ball joint replacement tool that Wes picked up for me at Princess Auto. And heck, I've done struts enough times...

125,000km with no anti-seize. But I have FIRE!!!

[MilesM]

You can call Steve Fleming - Service Manager - at Downtown Acura. He's a club sponsor and will give you the straight goods on Warranties and replacements. Kelvin, Ken and Mark all work for Honda dealers, but not sure if there's anything different with Acura. Don't imagine there are. Not sure why your engine mounts would need changing. Have a CRX with close to 300K on the original mounts. They're dried out and old, but still do the job. Only broken one mount on the rear but was running 3 not 4 engine mounts, so puts more strain on the back one. Honda has many specialty fluids for some reason. After testing many different tranny fluids and additives, for some reason I find the Honda stuff works the best.

[Slowpoke]

Small update... the new transmission is in, but we're not getting the car back today because they need a new PCM as well! It seems that Honda may have (tried to) fix the issue with software, or the new transmission might have more sensors, requiring a new PCM? The service advisors don't know. But they know they need the new PCM.

Either way, I went with Amsoil Synthetic ATF this time. I did the Honda Z1 ATF thing with the first transmission, so not intersted in doing that again. Isn't the definition of insanity repeating the same action and expecting a different result? :D

I have the service manual at home for the TL and I should have checked what the "Replacement wear" indicator is for the Front Engine Mount. I never even thought to check. I'll have a look at that on Friday...

[1999_ITR]

Wow that advisor needs to read up on his bulletins lol......Yes you need a new PCM that IS the fix...The new PCM will come with different shift points(softening up the shift) therefore reducing the chance of the replacement tranny of having the same issues.

As for balljoints 1 hour per is very reasonable. We charge 1.5 hours per side at our Acura dealership. Make sure they don't just slap in balljoints they should check to see if there is an "A" or "B" stamped on it as if it's a "B" it will require new knuckles and bearings. If you replace just the balljoints on a "B" you'll have the same issue again in about 50,000km's as the sizing is different.

As for the mounts....It's not something I've seen many times before but wouldn't be suprised if I saw it to be honest.

[Slowpoke]

Thanks Mark!

Well, I learned a few things:

#1: The engine mounts in the wife's TL are vacuum operated, and controlled based on engine speed! A fluid leak indicates a failed mount, and it's common to find when doing the tranny.
#2: To change ball joints on a TL, you have to remove the axle nut, caliper, rotor, disconnect the tie rod end, upper and lower ball joints, pull off the whole knuckle and use special tools to press a new ball joint in there! Bugger! 1 hour isn't a bad estimate.
#3: The replacement ball joints have a "B" on them. So next time... I guess I HAVE to replace the ball joint and knuckle at the same time...? Bugger.
#4: I found some Acura TL forums!: http://tl.acurazine.com/forums/
#5: Car feels so good with new front shocks, that now I regret not doing the rears, too!

The new transmission was shifting a little rough at first when "cold". After the first 6000km I'll do another fluid flush. I did end up going with Amsoil synthetic ATF, though the dealer didn't change the torque converter, so only 3L went in with the new transmission.